WunderPod
On the WunderPod, Mer and Wolf have intimate and broad-reaching conversations with a wide range of creative guests about the wonders of existence: unscripted, unrestrained, and uncut.
Contact: wow@wunder.media
WunderPod
Mer Pt 1 - Life on the big slide
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Switch up! Wolf and Madi put Mer in the hot seat this time. Mer shares about the insular Christian community they grew up in and their high stakes exit. The gang talks about becoming Yourself, being petrified and doing it anyway…and Wolf’s deep-seated elitism around renting e-scooters.
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As I got as I went down the slide, I started fucking. I started drinking. I mean, yeah, I stood up. I went to Costa Rica. Be prepared to sink and feel in.
SPEAKER_03There are no in the sky what's out there. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_02Ready? Ready? Ready? Ready and sweaty. Ready and sweaty. That's what we want. Alright, welcome to the wonder pod. Um today we have a special configuration. I have a uh guest host.
SPEAKER_01Hello, hello. Maddie Budge is back.
SPEAKER_02Back, we love it. From episode 18, I think. I think. Anyway. Um Maddie Part 1 and Maddie Part 2.
SPEAKER_00What, what?
SPEAKER_02They're out there. And Maddie is guest hosting with me so that we can scare Mary. Wow. Scared.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Mayor is in the hot seat. Mayor is scared.
SPEAKER_02And a roll reversal for today.
SPEAKER_00And Mary wants everyone to know that they are not used to being the one being asked the questions. I'm used to assaulting people with my curiosity. And then when I get when when I'm in the receiving end of it, I'm always like, oh, this is how I make people feel. So this is good for me. Character building. These are big shoes to fill.
SPEAKER_01Prepare to be assaulted with my curiosity. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I have to tell you. You want to share, yeah, you want to share um your pronouns and then tell us three things about yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because the audience doesn't know anything about you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, Meredith.
SPEAKER_02I really want to introduce it.
SPEAKER_00My name is Meredith. Um my friends call me Mare. My pronouns are they, them. And three things about me. Okay, yesterday I squatted 135 pounds.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00I can carry my boyfriend up the stairs. And as I wrote, it's honestly no big deal. Um second, I believe curiosity is one of the best qualities a human can have. Um third, wolf two days ago, punched me in the face. I'm a mandatory reporter. Uh fourth, once I was at a hostel in Vietnam and I met three guys who were traveling south in the morning on their motorcycles, and they asked me if I wanted to go with them, and I said yes.
SPEAKER_03Nice. Did you go?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Spontaneous.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Where was this? Vietnam. And where do you end up? Um, south. I had gotten a bus ticket from north to south, and I was going, I was like stopping along the way and doing stuff, and I met these three blokes, and they were gonna go on motorcycles, and I'm like, well, I paid for my bus pass, but it's gonna be there regardless of me, you know. I already paid for it, whatever, who cares? So I'll just go f do the next I'll go to the next stop in the next town. And I was I was uh with these guys for maybe like three nights or two. Oh nice, wow something, and we were on the High Van Pass, which is uh pass in Vietnam, and it was green and lush and very bendy, like just all all bends.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00And it was marvelous. Yeah, someone's back. Yeah, and I trusted them. Wow, I felt safe. I had just met them. There was a guy from Australia, a guy from the Netherlands, and a guy from Scotland, I think. And I just was like, hell yeah, I'm I'm going.
SPEAKER_03Letter real.
SPEAKER_00It was great. Wow. Yeah. Sounds free. Um, I wonder if I have any other things to say. I used to have I want I used to want to have between five and a hundred kids.
SPEAKER_03That's a big range.
SPEAKER_00And now I don't. Here's another one. I have a million close friends and I'm terrified that they'll stop loving me and that they won't tell me. So that's my top three slash five five fun facts.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00I was trying to think what have I not already vomited all over this show? That was kind of tricky. Because the good lord knows.
SPEAKER_02We've talked a lot.
SPEAKER_01I spell the beans regularly. Same. I wish I could be a mysterious person and it's just not in the cards. I always wanted to be mysterious.
SPEAKER_02I think mysterious is a little overrated, actually.
SPEAKER_01Well, you were mysterious when I first met you. No. When so Mare and I met when we we worked a line fine together, and I asked you where you were from, and you said something along the lines of, oh, I'm from all over the place. And then never followed up. It's like, wow. Wow, so unavailable. Mysterious. You thought I was mysterious? Yeah, that answer was really interesting. And you felt very kind of like unattainable. Magical.
SPEAKER_00Impossible. That's funny. I that's thank you. I didn't know that I could be mysterious.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00I just have it all out all the time, pretty much. So thanks. Kind of a nice change.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00What are you curious about lately? Well, I I've said that because I'm noticing that when I am really annoyed with someone or I'm upset with somebody, and then I open myself up to curiosity, I feel less uncomfortable because I immediately make more space for them and all the things that I don't know about them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it just helps me navigate the situation better.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And also I've noticed um especially lately that people that I've known for a very long time, even my own siblings, I will never know everything about them. I will always be surprised. People will always just keep surprising me. I will I will never have someone totally figured out even when I'm 90 and known someone for 90 years. It's just n I just don't think it's possible. We just keep evolving.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, true. Right. There's always new aspects people are always developing new aspects of themselves.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the history just it seems like it just it grows exponentially behind us as we keep walking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Wait, wait, say more about that.
SPEAKER_00Like because our persp perception about it changes. Yeah. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02No. No, I would like some more explanation.
SPEAKER_00Um okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh like our memories, flavor, like however we're feeling about our memory or wherever we're at whatever mental state we're at now affects flavors.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah. And it's always changing. And then also other people have their own versions of whatever story that we lived through.
SPEAKER_03That's true.
SPEAKER_00So it's just a moving target. So anyway, if I can just like today I was watching this mom um interact with their her child, and I was feeling judgmental. I recognize that. But the kid was like um maybe she was like three or s or two, and she was maybe being a little rough with this baby. And maybe she was trying to hug it or like b act like it's big sister, or who knows. And then later she was climbing up on this thing and she wasn't supposed to be up there, and the mom just kept being like, Don't do that. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? Stop doing that. And of course, it's not my kid, and I don't know what it's like to have a big child, but I was just thinking, well, I wonder why the kid is doing these things. There's probably a perfectly good explanation. And kids, I believe they are pure. So I mean, if you have a kid and they're really fucking annoying you and testing your limits, it's hard to be curious, but um, that might not be the best example, but recently someone very close to me told me some feedback about me that really disoriented me. Um it made me wonder if I'm an asshole and I just don't know it. And I had my reaction to what they said, and then I was like, wait, if I were them, this would make perfect sense to me. Like their perspective of our relationship and how I'm impacting them would make perfect sense. So I'm curiosity is just really I'm just really leaning into that a lot right now.
SPEAKER_02Do you find that destabilizing for yourself sometimes?
SPEAKER_00No, it's so no, it's stabilized.
SPEAKER_02It's no There's never times where that feels like it leaves you feeling like you don't really like you have no sense of grounding because you're too like, what if anything could be anything?
SPEAKER_00That's calming to me.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_00Or like reassuring. Maybe not maybe not calming, but reassuring. It's similar to the question, why are we on the planet and what matters? Um just to keep it light. Um when I went to meeting, which is this Christian-y thing that I grew up with, um I had all the answers right out, laid out in front of me. Yeah. No room for deviation. Follow. Don't ask any questions. If you ask questions, you're struggling you're labeled as struggling and like you just need more faith and you're doing it wrong. And curiosity wasn't encouraged. It was discouraged in my in my experience. Maybe maybe not everybody would say that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so now, since I don't follow any kind of specific teaching, religious or spiritual, um, it's open-ended and I don't know why we're here. And today I was actually wondering, like, I that usually remembering that I have no idea and that no one technically knows, like someone told me when I still went to beating. Um no one has died and been able to come back and tell us for sure. Right. And that had never occurred to me, and it was just kind of a crack in my like worldview in a in a good way.
SPEAKER_01And then it makes those sticky thoughts of do my friends not like me or will they stop loving me less hard and true? And you can be like, No, that's just plain old fucking scary. But then you can be curious, like, oh, my thought about that is not like there's not one way to think about this. Like, there are so many options, and that's the truth. I don't need to get stuck in my rut and my fear. I would love to be able to do that. I don't know how to do that. And I think I can speak for all of us that that's absolutely not the case. And you are love, like you are just this ball of love. And I think that you sustain you have millions of close friends because because you're the core. Oh. Thank you. We can't lose that. Like, we're probably holding on to you tighter than you're holding on to us.
SPEAKER_00What? You're I'm not crying.
SPEAKER_02You're crying, I'm not crying.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. That's nice.
SPEAKER_01All right. Yeah, you've got to hear that. Oh. You've got to be curious about that thought.
SPEAKER_00That's that's one that just is straight fear, and I don't and I I've asked I've talked to many people about it and therapists, and I've been like they're like, Why do you think you're so scared in your relationships? And why are you so insecure about your relationships? And I'll be like, Well, I don't know. I don't if I don't know if it's related to growing up in a very rigid atmosphere.
SPEAKER_02That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_00And if you in my experience, again, I don't want to speak for anyone else in that same experience or whatever uh religion or whatever, but if you make one false move, you lose your whole community. Like you basically are cast out into the other, you're othered into the world, the quote world. Like you're in or you're out, and then so you're losing your whole community, and then you're fucked for all of eternity. That was my interpretation and my experience. So but that's terrifying. Then every time I tell someone that they're like, oh yeah, that's probably what it is, and I'm like, is it? I just don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, who knows, right? Lots of pieces to the puzzle, but like I'm gonna do it. It feels likely that that's sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But it does feel likely that that would be a big that could have a big impact in kind of setting that perspective. Because there is no like it doesn't, you know, compared to maybe other religions, like there is no there's no way to be redeemed. Right? Like there wasn't a way where you could like fuck up a lot and then be like, oh, we can make you okay again.
SPEAKER_00Well, there was always the like, you know, you can always come back and make it right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00If you say that what you did was wrong. If you, you know, do it all the right way. Like, again, back to that rigidity. You can have this big story about I I traveled far and tattoos and don't do it. Don't do it and I laid with women. And then now I'm back to, you know, the Bible. I don't know. I I don't know. I'm feeling worried that if someone listens to this who has gone to meeting or does go to meeting, they'll be like, that's not how it was, but this is my Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02You're not making an assess a s a statement about the entire thing. You're just saying this is how you felt when you were there.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to figure out why I'm so scared of losing my people who I really value. And it makes me feel like I need to be hyper-aware, which I already am, unfortunately. And I'm like, you looked at me weird. Are we cool? Are we cool? Are we cool? So okay, so those are the three things, five to six things about me.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Thanks for the introduction.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I just vomited again.
SPEAKER_02That's great. You're in the vomit seat.
unknownYeah, I think.
SPEAKER_02With the bucket down there, it's ready to go.
SPEAKER_01Give us some more.
SPEAKER_02All right, well, Wonder Quest time. So, uh let's see, last uh our last guest. We had Jack on, and um he uh prescribed to us to go um locomote in some new way, like use some new method of transportation to get somewhere interesting. So Meredith.
SPEAKER_00So what was your experience? More than one of those locomote? More than one of us is cringing right now, and that is cool. I think we're pretty much on the same page here. So um I live, in my opinion, in a location where it's a little tricky to not drive a car. And and of course there's always a bike, but I don't have a bike pump.
SPEAKER_02And well, and it was supposed like the idea was to do something new.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, that we hadn't done before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So anyway, I kind of phoned it in this time and I was in Drake Park, and I just rented um those an electric scooter for nine minutes.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Stand-up style. Like they looked like a razor scooter kind of, but they're not there was a seat. Oh.
SPEAKER_00And I just kind of, you know, tea bike things for a little bit. And so the I don't know if Jack said like go to work in a new way. No, he's I guess he didn't.
SPEAKER_02He was flexible in it.
SPEAKER_00I was just kind of messing around for for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02How was it? I've never I've never ridden on one of those.
SPEAKER_00I would love I it's it's moder it's mild to moderately fun.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um apparently I was in a slow zone in Drake Park, so I wasn't able to really let a rip.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00There's like geofencing on the things that keeps you from there's a voice that kept being like, This is a slow zone. Wow. So that was totally a buzzword. Well, what was coming up for you when you were getting slow zones when you were tutting around? I was balancing a lot of stuff, and so I was driving with one hand and trying not to fall over. And I wanted to go fast, but I'm like, I think that's for next time. Yeah. So that's it.
SPEAKER_02I've never bike shared before.
SPEAKER_00You mean scootered?
SPEAKER_02Either any of those. Rentered. Yeah, I've never I've never done any of those.
SPEAKER_00That's kind of odd to me.
SPEAKER_02Um, I think it is it comes from like this like deep lingering elitism. From uh like mostly from when I was in college in New York and I like rode my bike all the time, and like I was like definitely more insecure than I am now, so I was like a bit of an elitist prick around around um. I know, hard to imagine. Um and like the bike share bikes had just come to New York at that time, and um I considered myself to be like a pretty like pretty fast, pretty hardcore like city rider, you know. So I'm always like trying to pass these like people on city bikes going the wrong way on the street and going fucking slow.
SPEAKER_01It's probably me because in 2019 I did use a city bike in New York and almost got hit by a bus.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Literally.
SPEAKER_01So is a city bike what's a city bike?
SPEAKER_02Oh so city bike was like um the there was the it was like bike share. You had yeah, yeah, yeah. You there was like a little stations around the city, and you would you would rent these bikes and then you would ride them and then you'd dock them at some other station.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and they were pedal bikes, not e-bikes.
SPEAKER_02I think they had I can't remember if they had e-bike assists then or not. Okay, okay. They might have. But uh yeah, and I so I so like I have this like this lingering perspective. I'm like, those are for the fucking plebs. I could never do that.
SPEAKER_00Just to be clear, I don't think you're an elitist prick, but I think that I have some elitist prick tendencies. Um I can't say for sure, but I do think that if we were at a party and the theme was act like a re- an elitist prick, I think you'd do great.
SPEAKER_02It's from experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, okay.
SPEAKER_02Um Yeah, no, I've never done it, but I I should open my mind. They look fun. Like if I can set aside my uh They're okay. She brush?
SPEAKER_00Like they're in a city setting, and I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I think the scooters look more fun to me.
SPEAKER_01I don't want another app. I don't want something I have to download. Yeah. I'm gonna be deleting my app immediately. Hard info too.
SPEAKER_00I just I don't I want less stuff on my phone. I did it for the Wonder Quest, but I'm gonna be deleting it.
SPEAKER_02You're not gonna try it again.
SPEAKER_00No, and I really don't like seeing the the e-bikes in the bodies of water. People suck. People just fucking suck. Well I've seen too many e-bikes, rental e-bikes in the city in like the lake or the river. Yeah. In multiple cities.
SPEAKER_02I I feel like it's I feel like it's like tech firm rebellion is what that is.
SPEAKER_00Oh. Stick it to the man.
SPEAKER_02Like you can't throw Facebook servers in the river, which is what you want to do.
SPEAKER_00But it's littering.
SPEAKER_02Well, yes, and they're kind of already littering, right? They're just putting the shit everywhere and like they break, and then they'll stick the like I don't know how they decide where to put them, but like they have people drive them around and put them places, and like they put them in places that are like no one is ever gonna use it here. Like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_00They're trying to spread the good word. Yeah, I don't I don't really love them either, but whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the docked ones are nice because at least they're like in one place. Yeah. You know, like they go into like a little station and it's a little bit more orderly than like they're just fucking everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Did either of you do the wonder quest? No. No judgment. I was I was in the water today, I was in the river today.
SPEAKER_00Hey, you locomoted with your body. Mm-hmm. That's not your secondary or your tertiary mode. So Tertiary. Yeah, primary? Third.
SPEAKER_01Third. Oh. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Primary, secondary. I would say that my primary mode of getting around is my body. Okay. Right? Like, okay, true.
SPEAKER_00You can't really do it without your body. That's true.
SPEAKER_02That's hard.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so the wonder quest. Okay, well hold on.
SPEAKER_02Before we do that, I have one more question. If you if you could choose any type of new like a new way of getting around that you haven't tried before that was available to you for this, what would you have picked?
SPEAKER_01Um I've snorkeling. I wanted to get good at skateboarding. Just skateboard around town.
SPEAKER_02So sexy. I also have that same feeling.
SPEAKER_00Very hot. I have a longboard if you ever want to borrow it. I I I don't want a longboard. I want a skateboard. Okay, fair enough. What's the difference, really? One's longer and less cool. Skateboards are not as cool?
SPEAKER_03The skateboard is a little bit more. I don't mean anymore.
SPEAKER_00They're cooler. Why? Because they can do tricks?
SPEAKER_01They just seem faster and just like easier. They just feel easier to maneuver. I don't know. I want I want to just be able to just like roll around. We could get places fast.
SPEAKER_00If you want, I'd be down to meet you at the skate park and fuck around on skateboards.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, that would be fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think we could do that. Okay. Yeah. For kicks.
SPEAKER_02Deal. Kickflips.
SPEAKER_00How about you? How would you want to get around?
SPEAKER_02Uh roller skates.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Like I really was like it would be so fun to like you live in the wrong neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00Let's try down your gravel road. Down the field. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But um yeah, roll us skating to the grocery store and then robust skating through the grocery store and then rollers getting home seems pretty fun.
SPEAKER_01Power moves through the grocery store. I love that. Yeah. Would they be upset about it?
SPEAKER_02I don't know, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_01But then that'd be too easy of a description. The guy in the skateboard. Or the guy in the rollerblades.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Ditch the roller blades. Come on, guys. Nobies. Noobs, I mean. Thieves.
SPEAKER_02Alright, so what's the Wonder Quest for next time?
SPEAKER_00The original idea that I had was just to spend three hours of an um outside. The reason that I thought of it was because I have mentioned on here that sometimes I spend two whole hours or three whole hours outside, and I feel like I have been outside all day, but then I come back inside and I'm like, oh, it was actually only for like a quarter of the day. And so um I feel a huge pull to just be outside a lot when I'm inside. I'm very, very conscious, and some of it's guilt, like, oh, you shouldn't be wasting your opportunity to be outside.
SPEAKER_04Oh okay.
SPEAKER_00But um I feel very um kissed by the sun and like like more aligned with myself when I'm outside lately. Yeah. Really, like it's very impactful. And so I was just thinking, like, just just focus on being outside, don't take a break. It's not like don't break it up over the day or the week. Like go on a hike or go like work on a wood project in your driveway or read in a lawn chair. Or like just but just just be only outside. What's your primary mode of being outside? Um, like what do I do when I'm outside? Um walking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you found you just moved kind of, so have you found a new walking path in your area?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's along the canal. Uh what I don't know what canal it is a canal. Um, and on one side it's like gravelly like your driveway, and the other side is just um undeveloped, like dirt and brush and just uneven uneven terrain, and it's so great. I love that side. So it's like a little hiking trail.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like a block over from my house. Wow. So I go there most days.
SPEAKER_03Most days?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00I'm spending a t I'm really focused. I'm really emphasizing movement and outside time, like in a whole new way these days.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00It's huge. It's a big priority. Like it's a driving force. Big time. I just it's so important.
SPEAKER_01I think it just reminds us that we're pretty simple as humans. Like and we we complicate everything and we feel like we need to get everywhere really fast and and be really efficient, and actually just being outside. I just want to be outside. It just feels like elementally what we're me made to do, what we've been programmed for. I know.
SPEAKER_00Like why and to move at that pace. Yeah. And then to also be become more in tune with what's happening in nature, the rhythm of the seasons, and what are the animals doing? And like I noticed, like, I I feel like you're pretty observant when it comes to stuff happening on your property. Like you notice the the pair of ducks on your lawn or or in the in the pond or like whatever the fuck's happening. This month I noticed, I think I already told you this, but the the water in the canal started running again. And that week after I saw like five, I don't know if they were marmots or something, like little little guys.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I just spend so much time in that same spot that I can notice the changes happening. Yes. So I just develop it. It makes me feel really good with it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, is that is that cool for a for a W key?
SPEAKER_02Great. Love it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Can't wait.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I'm in. Cool. I'll do it. Great.
SPEAKER_02Well, shall we spin the Wonder Wheel?
SPEAKER_01Wonder Wheel. Holy mackerel.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_00Oh we Oh! Wonderscale! Wow. You know what? Your favorite. It's my favorite.
SPEAKER_02All right, for Wonder Scale.
SPEAKER_00Cubes.
SPEAKER_02Scale one through ten. Miracles.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you guys. So beautiful.
unknownNice.
SPEAKER_00Even said at the same time.
SPEAKER_02We practiced that last one.
SPEAKER_00I would give miracles a ten.
SPEAKER_01Same. And I am like, how could miracles not be a ten? This is a conversation we have had. Like miracles inherently are the most wondrous. Is there any debate?
SPEAKER_02Okay, here's my country.
SPEAKER_01You elitist prick. Tell the plebes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was thinking about this and I was like, I don't really so like the word miraculous, I think I like inter interact with more often, you know, and like that word I do use like occasionally. Miracle, it's like I have two like totally divergent associations with it, and I never really use it, you know. It's not like a word that like comes into my day-to-day life. There's like miracles in religion, right?
SPEAKER_00Which I'm like that's what I'm most familiar with.
SPEAKER_02I don't have like a contemporary relationship with that, really, right? And so and like as a kid, I feel like I was like, they're magic and I don't really understand them. And then the other association is like goofy Hollywood Hallmark movie miracles, right?
SPEAKER_00He came home for Christmas. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that shit I'm like wonder like two out of ten, you know.
SPEAKER_00What about childbirth? I'd say that's a miracle, and it's also just it's happening every second on the subject.
SPEAKER_04Good point. Yeah. But like miraculous.
SPEAKER_01Have you ever experienced something that feels like a miracle?
SPEAKER_00Okay, because also my definition of a miracle is more of a Bible sense, I think. Like the big stone was rolled away out of the mouth of the cave. And out he walked. Yeah. And how did he do that? A miracle. Yeah. So I don't I don't really know these days if I would have anything that feels like a miracle.
SPEAKER_02Have you?
SPEAKER_00Like, I don't know, staying alive.
SPEAKER_02The BGs are a miracle. That's a good point.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know. I don't know if I'd call it a miracle, but I think I've had moments where I'm like, that was divine. Like what?
SPEAKER_00Like what? Um, oh but that makes sense. From your episode, you're talking about making meaning. That makes sense. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, well, I don't have any great stories about it that that that in the moment they felt miraculous, like um this one I stopped smoking weed for like a year, a few years ago. And it was it was pretty it was actually a very like religious reason to stop. I was just like on a walk smoking one day, and like a thought dropped in my head, like this is getting weed is getting in the way of my spiritual experience. And then I was like, okay, like I'm gonna stop it in the name of not getting the way of my spiritual experience. And then I was on a walk and I was like, well, what am I gonna what am I gonna think? Like, what am I gonna do on my walk if I don't have this? And then um, right when I thought that I like walked across the street and there was this sheet music on the street of this psalm. And I felt very like, what the heck? That sounds divine. This is insane. Yeah. And then later on in that that like quest of not smoking, I realized that it like had power over me in the other direction. Like now, if I just like had a little bit of a smoke at a friend's house or something, then I've decided to like totally throw away my like spiritual side, so then now it's like still has this power over me. And so I was just in my hammock, and I don't know why this is coming up for miracle, but lean into it. I was in my hammock, and I was like, I need to go get some weed and go on a walk so I can like crush this power dynamic. Crush this power dynamic, and then went on a walk on the river trail, and um I was smoking and having a good time and uh sat by the water and only had like a candle lighter for a lighter because I had it thrown away all my lighters and was like trying to light it and it wouldn't light, so I was like, okay. Wait, what's a candle lighter? Like the really long lighters.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a candle lighter. Yeah, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_01And um, yeah, was lighting it and it wouldn't light it, so I was like, okay, guess God or whatever doesn't want me to smoke anymore. And then it lit and I was like, ha, yay! And then I like bent, I had the joint in my mouth and I bent down to like light it, and then it the joint fell out of my mouth and like rushed down the river. Oh and I was like, you motherfucker! I don't know, it just felt like it's like this is funny, you're funny.
SPEAKER_00And I'm not having fun. Um, I have many friends who have had very spiritual experiences with weed and relate spiritual relationships with weed. And I have had really nice spiritual, I'd say, experiences with weed. Like I'm I find some peace, or I like have some really nice reflection, or I'm I have some I like I remember what matters. So Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I had a lot of like night terrors as a kid and a lot of images that would come to me because of like religious terror and um like these images would just like drop into my head of scary things and they'd feel very real, but I know they wouldn't be. And then one day I had this like really beautiful image drop into my head, and I was like, that's cool. Like if I can imagine something scary, then this like beautiful thing can do the opposite of that. That's nice. As a kid, um no, this was like a couple years ago. I was on this like big spiritual vendor a couple years ago, and then I've completely dropped it.
SPEAKER_03So what prompted that?
SPEAKER_01Ebbs and blues. It was exploratory.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm when I moved to Bend, I lived alone in the forest, kind of, and just spent a lot of time alone and spent a lot of time in the woods, and it felt like a very spiritual time. What do you mean in the woods? I lived in in Seventh Mountain and just like would always be on the river trail. And oh nice. There's like hours of walking out there, and it felt very spiritual. And it kind of got me into this like spiritual fever for a while. Trance. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Spending time outside.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sweet.
SPEAKER_02Well, Maddie, you want to uh let us know. Bring us into the interview? First question?
SPEAKER_01The question is we both observe you to be someone who's totally unapologetically yourself. You're one of one, and that's like immediately perceptible to anyone that's meeting you. And we're curious how that aligns with your self-perception and the journey, uh how the how you've gotten to be this unique being that you are and that we love.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. First of all, uh, that is a really sweet question. Um Before I answer it, and I'm not stalling, um you perceive me to be unapologetically myself. What are you perceiving in other people who aren't that way? Like can you define it?
SPEAKER_02They have an image that they're trying to create with the way that they are in the world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's sort of like a intentional choice and is crafted in a way that adjusts, sort of smooths down in some way or amplifies in some way aspects of themselves. But that it's sort of like an intentional, it's like an act a little bit. And I guess compared to you, I'm like, I actually don't think you could possibly do that. Like, I can't imagine you doing that, you know, because uh my interactions with you are like this is what it this is what you're getting, you know, this is what you're setting up for, and like you know, we're not we're not uh not making adjustments, you know, to be like, oh, am I more palatable this way? Like, let me make sure that I'm like and I'm sure that or I don't know, I'm curious to hear, but I'm I suspect that like it probably the interior experience is different for you, but from the outside it feels like this is this is this is this is Meredith and like take it or leave it, you know?
SPEAKER_01Unedited like you being around you gives permission to be just like blah, like I can just show up in all my like random thoughts and whatever, like nothing needs to be polished, and good and you can and I can just totally like relax into your presence and not have to like you like in mirroring in conversation in mirroring you, then I it's like me comes out more fully.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. I'm really happy that's what you guys are experiencing. Um I don't really know what I'm about to say because we'll see. But thank you. It's just very, very nice. Um it's easier to be myself than it is to curate something. So as we all know, I have a lot of fear and anxiety about hurting someone's feelings or messing up or fucking up or like, did I misinterpret that or did I miss something or whatever? And so that is one thing that does stand in my way of being unapologetically myself.
SPEAKER_05Sure.
SPEAKER_01But almost owning that and being vocal about that is what makes you unapod unapologetically yourself, because most people with this front cannot admit to that. Really?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. At least or at least like the cognizance, like they aren't aware uh that that is a driving factor for them, so then it it's like it's like sitting in the background running. Oh you know? And so then they can't maybe they can't make choices to just reflect who they are because they like they aren't even aware that that's what's happening, you know? Whereas for you, it's like you know that's a fear of yours, and like you I feel like maybe knowing that and being aware of that makes it easier to be like, well, then I can just be myself and like know that I'm sort of like being semi-careful around this because it's it's it's conscious, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And also that like I'm aware of it so I can ask other people about their experience to like find out if I said something that hurt their feelings and didn't realize, and then we can repair that, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um thank you. Articulating it great.
SPEAKER_02Um you feel like you're unapologetically yourself?
SPEAKER_00I do for the most part, yeah. Have you always been that way? Um, I don't know. There was just kind of this before and after with Christianity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and I don't I don't I'll have to I don't have to think about like Meredith pre making my exit. Um since since I have left. So when I left, I it was the scariest decision I had ever made. And I was making the decision to leave my community and that they would be hurt by my decision, and that my whole family would be hurt by my decision, and the people that I had been friends with my whole life, or just been in community with my whole life would see me very differently. That I would be othered, that I'd be outside.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That I wouldn't be one of them anymore, that I'd be yeah, othered. Um so that was a lot to hold. And even though and then also I was terrified about what was out there. And so I had this vision this visualization or this picture that I was at the top of a huge slide. Maybe you guys have already heard this. At the top of a huge slide about to go down and crash at the bottom. Like that's what happens if you leave the safety of the inner circle.
SPEAKER_02It's a one-way street, you're going and you're gone.
SPEAKER_00Well, people again, people came back.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes they'd leave and then they'd come back. But it's always gonna be a disaster when you leave kind of message.
SPEAKER_00Well, it was like a f it was as if you died. So growing up when I had when someone left the community, and again, for anyone who doesn't know, there is no name of this community. Um it's an offshoot of Christianity. Um it may have been started in the 1800s by a bloke uh named William Irvine. I'm not positive, but that's what the internet saws. Um I didn't actually Google it until several years after I had left, which was interesting. Because I had just assumed, well, there's no like there of course it's not on the internet, like there's nothing to say about it. It's like it's the one true way, and it's the internally they call it the truth in the way, externally they some people call it the two by twos. Um what does that mean? Um so in the New Testament, Jesus sent forth disciples two by two to go preach the gospel. So they would like two two men, I think, back then. Or maybe they were women too, but yeah, two people would go do it together in pairs. Um and so that's how they did it in this in this crew as well. So I I kind of lost my thread, but I had this picture that I was gonna crash at the bottom, and I was terrified about what I would find out there, and I had been told my whole life um that it was just suffering, uh and that's it. And I was fucking petrified, and I did it anyway.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00Scariest thing I have ever done. And so uh there I went, and knowing how I was impacting my friends and family, because when I when I was growing up, when someone left, like they would start dating someone that was on the outside, or they like you know, didn't make it to meeting regularly. We had instead of church, we said going to meeting every Sunday and Wednesday. If they weren't there regularly, it was like, oh, they're could they're cut they're on the fringe, they're struggling, they're they're not staunch. How do we bring them back in?
SPEAKER_01Are they okay?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, are they okay? And they're and I was judgmental of those people, and I'm like, oh wow, she's painting her nails. What a fucking what a slut.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like I was I was that bitch. I um was really judgmental and I didn't know it, unfortunately. Um I was also homophobic, didn't know it. When it's the air that you breathe, that yeah, I didn't I didn't have any idea. So yeah, that's that's too bad, but anyway. Um so when someone would leave like stop coming to meeting, it was as if they died in my experience, and we didn't really talk to them anymore, except to like maybe sometimes reach out and like try to help help them, as in like help save their soul.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it was never like, hey, are you okay? You want to go for a walk? And like it was more like you did something wrong, you need to hurry up and get back here as soon as possible. And when I left, a few people that I had known forever reached out, and it was a similar thing. It was like, you're not gonna find what you're looking for out there. Come back. It's save me come out and save you. It was like, come this the safety is here. Like everything you need is where you left. Come back. And I didn't like that.
SPEAKER_01And they're so it's a it's this whole trap of you are threatening their belief by being happy on the outside, like you're threatening their whole structure if you look like you're not suffering and you leave. So you in order for their life perception to work out, you have to be having a bad time out there.
SPEAKER_02Because if you're having a good time, then that means that they have to look at themselves.
SPEAKER_00I don't know about that, honestly. Like anytime when I was growing up, when I was part of this crew, anytime someone left, I was worried about them. I was never like, oh, they're actually doing fine. I was like, there's no way they're okay.
SPEAKER_02Right. Right.
SPEAKER_00So I never looked at them and was like, oh, they're they're crushing it, they're happy. What does that mean for me? Like I just never
SPEAKER_02point is like the the way that the organization is structured right the the um oh what's the word I want not organized the um um like the way the teaching is structured for an organization for like a religion that is like that restrictive it has to be based on being on the outside is not okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? Because if being on the outside could be okay. The whole thing crumbles. Then it doesn't really work.
SPEAKER_00And that includes having worldly friends. Like so we went to public school growing up and it was like well you're like you found like you're lucky like you you know the right thing you found the right thing you're going to heaven or like you're on the right track and you're surrounded by people who you need to pray for and help bring to Jesus that's a lot. Well that was a lot. I relate to that yeah in like second grade I was I was having a Bible study with one girl in my class that was her family was atheist and she actually read the whole chapter of whatever I said we should read and I did not you didn't do the wonder to cosette yeah I was praying for all of my people at school like I I had friends at school I had tons of friends at school but I saw myself as set apart from them. I had to wear a skirt most days in my youth even on PE days sometimes like once I in elementary school I remember running the mile in a long denim skirt.
SPEAKER_04Oh my God.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like something about this I don't know but that was like my job. Yeah. And when when like I had responsibilities I had real responsibilities and like when instead of ministers or preachers we called them workers and so they would come over and stay in our homes. They didn't have a home or a job or any income or anything or a lot of possessions so they would spend their time I don't know how deep we want to go into this but they would spend the night at our house like in our rooms like we'd give up their our rooms we'd give them like the best food that we had we'd give them our absolute best we'd get up early before school and have a Bible study with them. We treated them like members of the family it was like royalty was in our house um and it was if they were men it was my job to um be modest because I don't want to tempt the brother workers is what I was told. Wow because it was on me. That was my job.
SPEAKER_01Anyway um so okay back to the question there's there are a lot of branches to this um I'm interested that when you reach the bottom of the slide what did you find?
SPEAKER_00Uh friendly people I was also traveling internationally by myself and I was making friends like it there's a lot of really cool people out there that will help you if you get in a pinch. Like your motor motorbike breaks down you're gonna be okay it's not like you're just stranded in a foreign country and knows no one you know to help you. It's like people come out of the woodworks and they're like stay with me have dinner with my family um so that was cool. Yeah some people when they've heard of how much I've traveled they've asked um they've they've thought it was a very brave thing to do for some reason and I have told so many people A the people the locals are often very welcoming and kind and are on your team and like you're on the same team. And then B a lot of the folks like if you stay in a hostel the the people that are there are there they are there for the same thing you are totally anyway that's not actually really related. So as I got as I went down the slide I started fucking I started drinking I mean yeah I stuck I went to Costa Rica and I lost my uh or I don't really like that phrase lost my virginity I had sex for the first time I had sex for the first time um blew those doors wide open I was open for business I had I had sex with five people in like a month or two which is a lot and they were strangers um most of it was not ideal um but I was okay I was I was keeping myself safe enough like there was there was no danger of like I mean there's always a little danger but not exactly it could have been a lot worse. Sure sure sure I'm not I mean it'd be cool if all of my sexual experiences were really wonderful but that's okay. That's okay. Or I don't know it's not okay. But it is what it is.
SPEAKER_02It is okay right like especially like it when it's early in your sexual career like you don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah but you don't know what you like you don't know what's fun you don't know what's not fun like you have to just kind of consent I didn't know about respect I didn't know shit unfortunately same for me about college uh like condoms so thank goodness for that yeah um I I was protecting my family from or I was trying to protect my family from my decisions because I they had known me as a very um like faithful like godly person and then I went I took a left and I started doing other stuff that to this day many of them can't relate to that they've never done um I was living it up and uh I found my what's that well when you're told your whole this is similar to my story that when you're told your whole life to just not do something because we don't do that because that's bad then and that's the reason and then you decide to go do that thing and it's actually pretty great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then there's no moderation like you don't know that you can like have any sort of um it's just like all or nothing. Yeah yeah that was your experience with trying new stuff with and like having sex and doing drugs and like getting drunk and like I just if you're told not to do it and then you decide well I'm gonna I'm gonna try this out then there's no like boundaries there's define the boundaries slowly.
SPEAKER_00Yep and and for me and I'm I'm curious it sounds like it was for you too that you were just like wow like I had I had my street smarts and I had yeah I would I wouldn't say I went off the deep end at all. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah but I would it sounds like you did for a little bit yeah and then I had to rein it back in I gotta have a lower profile with my family. Got you. Yeah anyway sorry I'm not meaning to like no no no I'm not meaning to like I have been wanting to talk to you more about your experience with this too so I think I'm colliding our experiences too much. We're no I with you're doing great okay comparing and contrasting we're comparing and we're contrasting but I'm glad I love that you said you didn't go off the deep end and maybe actually like what you said about we can look back at our life with different eyes like maybe I didn't either there you go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah you're still here you're right for where yeah you gotta figure out your own boundaries and your own like okay what do I feel is safe for me right now and so I don't know there's only one way to figure it out and it's not nobody can tell you. Exactly you gotta just do it. Yeah I was drinking I was like smoking pot I was having one night stands I um yeah I was swearing for the first time that was very thrilling and like scary very very like whoa risky yeah yikes narrow like a tightrope walking a tightrope but like nothing bad happened so I kept on doing that. I haven't been struck down yet nope nope and I love swearing only been doing it for a third of my life so yeah you got some catching up definitely catching up favorite swear word well I have a lot I'm like fuck it's a good one um I've also in the last few years started saying oh my god and Jesus Christ that was like within the last year I think that one feels for a long time that felt like real like one of the worst things I could say. Yeah yeah yeah um it's interesting that when you said that I had a little bit of like a Yeah or when people say something like hail like hail Satan or whatever to this day I'm still I'm like ah let's not call the evil spirits in now. Yeah like that one I'm still kind of working on.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um anyway so as I was trying to blossom and become myself and figure out who I was outside of this community I was I found myself like I'm I've always been a verbal processor and I've always wanted to connect people and tell them what's going on but I wanted to keep it from my family so I didn't hurt them. And so I would hear myself I would be telling someone like oh I I just had this experience and then I'd be like don't tell anyone and I was I heard I heard myself saying that over and over and over and I started getting really tired of that and I'm like why like what am I hiding how is this protecting myself I just needed to like audit like audit that thing. Yeah and for maybe a year or two I was really keeping a lot from my family even from my sister Mia who like we used to share a room we lived together at one point like we were attached a lot and then I left I had I had to go do some stuff and I wasn't telling her every single headline and it was because I was I didn't want to hurt her. How old were you when you left 21 okay yeah I had just I I was in uh the Netherlands and that's the piece of writing that I have to share with you guys is like that moment. Um so yeah I would hear my I was trying to protect my family sorry my sometimes stories are most days most times stories are hard for me to tell but I heard myself doing that a lot and so then I went in the other direction and I'm like I want to love every corner of myself I don't want any part of me to feel like that needs to not be talked about ever again like oh my god don't ever bring that up again or um like secrets and shadows for my own story feel bad. Yeah um and it could be because I felt like I had to kind of hold them for so long hold them for a couple of years with good intentions. And so instead I just let it all out and I wore it all on my sleeve as they say and it felt like like radical self-love so if I'm like if I if I'm not scared of it then I can talk about it. Yeah yeah yeah like I I don't need to make it so I don't need to be scared of it. We're only as sick as our secrets. That's kind of what I was feeling yeah and some folks like my sister Mia she'll be like I don't need everyone to know everything about me and I'm like I do and she's like I know so my approach certainly wouldn't work for everybody but um and what does loving every corner of yourself look like practically well for me it was being able to talk about stuff that made me feel bad about myself and I couldn't do it all at once. Some things I mean I'm still working on it. Like there are some still a few things that I'm trying to figure out the right place, the right time, the right person to say it to the right way to articulate it. But like I would pick a person that I'd I'd just be like I'm gonna do this right now with this you with you and I'd be like when I was little this thing like I did this thing and I it's like something I don't even let myself think about or talk about and so then we'd talk about it and they'd be like oh same and I'd be like oh not alone so the more that I did that um the less I felt scared of my my corners. Yeah wow so yeah so I think that that is why that is how I got to where I am now but I don't remember before I left meeting if I was uh accessing that at all like well like if I was authentically myself all the time or whatever. I have no idea. Yeah. But now it just feels like a relief to be honest and I don't it's kind of like I'm not lying so I don't have to keep track of my lies.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah it's relieving to just I'm just like here I am buddy yeah and you're like I can have all the people in my life in one room and everyone will be like yep that's mayor we're all on the same page about how things went I don't know yeah and not acting different or putting on a different yeah that sounds really sickening.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to do that. Wow well yeah there's probably more that goes into it but I don't know that's what comes to mind do you want to um share your piece of writing related to that sure so last year I was coaching some clients uh and deleting some workshops writing stuff um and some of them were around memoir and so I was fiddling around with like do I want to write a memoir? So if I do want to here's where here's how it would start I reached for the volume dial in front of me and turned it a notch to the left. I settled back on the wooden bench facing the man on the podium who spoke to us in Dutch. A deep voice came through my headphones, translating the sermon into English. I sat under a large canvas tent surrounded by hundreds of people. The fans above our heads spun lazily, their creaks punctuating the stillness and adding to the feeling of solemnity I wore a skirt and my hair was in a messy bun. On my lap was a notebook packed with notes from that year's conventions and a pile of soft caramels. A few minutes passed before I reached again for the dial, turning it down a little more My heart thudded in my chest. I wondered if anyone around me was watching me, knowing exactly what I was doing. A cold fear had taken over my body. I had no idea what would come next what conversations I'd be a part of anymore what this meant for all my relationships. What would happen even after that meeting was over I just knew that this message didn't fit me anymore. Again I turned the volume down, but this time to zero I sat back with my eyes wide. My heart thudded but I kept my body still like an animal in the crosshairs. I slowly let my eyes wander trying to see if the people next to me were observing me thinking that I was struggling and sinful lost. Nothing around me had changed. The fans continued to creak someone reached up absentmindedly and scratched their beard kids colored in their notebooks. I breathed I was out I was completely wrapped up in that yeah I don't know what's gonna come next but that's the beginning of it exciting well I can't wait I'm I'm like on the edge of my seat the foot hanger at the end on the edge of the pew no no definitely not oh great wow I I actually went to a spoken word last year at the Commons and read that into the mic oh yeah what were you telling me about that shaking sweating so and I cried also while I read it.
SPEAKER_01Wow so powerful it was so intense I bet what in that message made you realize that in that moment that this is like I don't belong here anymore the reason that I um changed everything up abruptly is that um I was so my whole life I knew with a certainty that I did not want to be a worker.
SPEAKER_00So that is a minister a preacher and they again they don't have a house they don't have kids they don't have they don't have sex they don't have marriage they don't they don't have a lot of autonomy especially those sister workers. The brothers are there's a hierarchy of course um and I knew my entire life that I do not want that and I really hope that that's not what I have to do when I get older. And then I was in Germany for a year and I was a nanny for this family. They had four kids and m I was like the seventh or eighth au pair for that family. They went to meeting or the mom did and multiple of the previous nannies had ended up becoming workers. And so there was a joke in the little meeting we went to in Germany every Wednesday and Sunday sometimes they'd be like oh you're next and I'd be like fuck no I mean in my head I'd I wouldn't say fuck but I'd be like absolutely not and I'd be scared like oh I hope that's not what I have to do. Yeah because it's not like it's a choice really and it's not well it is of choice as I later learned but no one no human can tell you in this in this community like you should do this for your job or whatever. And of course it's not a paid job but it's a feeling you get it's a calling.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_00And so for some reason I got that calling so I was I would be sitting there in meeting and I would feel this feeling in my chest and I would feel I would it was as if there was a light beaming on me and God was like it's you I pick you it was very very real wow I have goosebumps or tingles or something. I'm not sure looking back like now I don't believe in God or Jesus or heaven or hell um so I can't explain what that experienced I don't know why I experienced that but it was so real and it it was to like my worst fear pretty much or one of my worst fears was happening. So I didn't tell anybody and I hadn't been baptized yet and I was at I asked this sister worker like hey I I went on a walk with her because this is how you make decisions in this community sometimes you go for a walk with a worker you like have a chat with a worker. Like I I said I've never been baptized there's this really big thing that I need to make a decision about and I don't know what I I haven't made the decision yet or something. And she told me make that decision first like figure that out and then get baptized and so very soon after that I was in this setting there's something called convention um which is kind of like summer camp as I say uh without kayaks and fun and volleyball it's more like you're in church for five hours a day like broken up between meals. Um not loot not fun. Yeah yeah but like very social. Um it it's supposed to be very like spiritually enriching enriching enriching enriching um so I was there in the Netherlands and I was listening to the sermon in headphones because I didn't speak Dutch and that's when I like made the decision like for some reason I like things had reached a building a uh building point what's it called boiling point. And I was like I'm I can't do this anymore because I reasoned that if I was going to say no to this calling then that would be referred to that would be what's called a lukewarm service instead of giving your all. Oh I see it would be like oh I'm I'm yes to some things, I'm no to some things and I would learned my whole life that's a don't do that. And there is that you gotta pass it.
SPEAKER_01You gotta be all you can't be one foot in, one foot out you can't worship money and worship God.
SPEAKER_00You gotta ch you gotta be a an a like a hundred percent yes and I was like okay I'm not a hundred percent yes and so that means I have to leave I have to be done. So that's why I made that decision to turn down that dial and so that I couldn't hear the message anymore. And then that's from that moment on I like stopped reading the Bible which I did two times a day and praying which I did two times a day morning and night like kneeling by my bed and praying before I ate meals and um just throughout the day like I just kind of had a conversation with God like kind of all the time.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and I still after that like I still went to meeting for maybe six months or something but I didn't participate. Yeah yeah and then I was like I'm an outsider everyone knows that I that something big has shifted and that I'm not the same Meredith that I was when I left for Germany.
SPEAKER_01And then gradually I stopped going to meeting and I yeah I don't know how to end that sentence and then I'm interested in your journey into queerdom okay this is great.
SPEAKER_02We should pick this up on the second half. I have to pee all right we're gonna take a little break and you listener can come back next week for the second half of this we're gonna get we're going deeper in the same direction we're going right now. Oh man be excited about that look forward to slap clenched indeed are we love you
