SPEAKER_04 0:00

Last week on Wonder Pod.

SPEAKER_03 0:02

There's a voice that kept being like, this is a slow zone. Being around you gives permission to be like I gotta show up in all my like random thoughts. Wow, she's painting her nails. What a slut.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

As I got as I went down the slide, I started fucking.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

I started be prepared to sink and feel in.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

There are no four in all there. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Um it's been a week. Gosh, haven't seen you guys in a whole week. Part two. Missed ya. Yeah, you look great. I know. Different. You look great and different.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

New fits.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Mm-hmm.

unknown 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Alright, welcome back to the Wonder Pod.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Part two.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Pleased.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

With uh role reversal mare in the hot seat.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Oh yeah. Where we left off is Mares for Foray into queerdum after the way.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

The foray after the way. Cool. Broad question, but I guess you're asking you know how to do it. When did that come about? Just how did it all unfold?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Because I assume when you were in the in the religion was like the idea of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

I perceive myself as straight and th homosexual like gayness, queerness was only referenced um in addition to in correlation with going to hell. Or like you gotta make it right. AKA put yourself in the closet, like marry someone of the opposite sex and just like stuff that part down and yeah, you'd have to push the put the urges away.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Yeah. Like don't act on your urges. And then you'll be good to go. As far as uh salvation goes, I guess. I don't know. So yeah, never had any conversations about it growing up. Then I had a friend who um is uh extraordinarily uh themselves and extraordinarily queer. Their name is Havala.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Hey Havala.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

We love a queer we love a queer uh shout-out, like a coming out, or like a queer awakening. Um Havala was my first queer friend. We met in I was in tenth grade. We met on the swim team and we thought each other was weird. Yes, erotic. Um they thought I was weird, I thought they were weird, but um my sister Mia and I would give them rides home from school. And the three of us became pals, great pals, sleepovers, um watching TV. We didn't have a TV, so Havala had a TV. Um yeah, and at that time, of course, I was still going to meeting and still thought that if you were gay they that was an issue and you needed to fix that. Fix that. And so Havala might not have really told me a hell of a lot at that point, understandably. Um I wouldn't have been supportive.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

And I would have I would have, yeah, as I said, first queer friend and blah blah. We'd hang out. I didn't get invited to parties because I think my peop my friends at school knew that I would not go. I was just very, very straight and narrow. And I was a lot of fun. I had I had friends, but also maybe I was kind of a prude, you know, prude. Like I actually didn't kiss anybody until I was 20.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

I I'm the same. I to my high school friend, I was like, wow, we just didn't have parties in high school. Everyone else was doing it. And she was like, No, there were. You just weren't invited.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. And it's a I don't feel bad that I don't feel like I I mean I understand like I I wore skirts every day and I had long hair and I uh didn't swear and I didn't smoke pot and I didn't drink and I didn't date and I I didn't do a lot of stuff that they were up to. So I had I hung out when I hung out with my friends, it was just it was mainly just at school. And then outside of school, I was hanging out with other people that went to meeting. Um other than Havala. So Havala like became part of our family and they'd come over for holidays and like spend the night at our house, and they would have conversations with us about like well, so they also grew up very Christian in a different way than I did. And their family was not into the homos as well. Um so they were kind of unpacking their own Christian stuff while I was like while they were telling me like, hey, I think you're in a cult. I'd be like, no, you just don't get it. Um and I don't know if it's a cult, but it's it's something.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Um you you can ask the question and not be that out of pocket when asking it, right? I mean it's like we don't know for the case. It's not an unreasonable question to ask, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:14

It's not like why are you saving me? I'm supposed to be saving you. Yeah. What's happening?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Yeah, and the fact that there's no name, I don't know. So whatever. But um we graduated high school, and um I'm skipping a lot of stuff here, but I started spending time with Havala's other friends who were also like genderqueer or not gender non-conforming. And so they had different pronouns, and I remember I really liked these people, and I also was petrified that I would fuck up their pronouns and then be canceled.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

And God, everyone's worry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

There was a lot of anger as as their sh I mean, it's justifiable. Um, it's just that it doesn't encourage curio like it it stifles curiosity in a way because you get punished for asking a question that you should already know the answer to. So it's like not ideal for anybody.

unknown 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

But then also being queer or being perceived as other can be exhausting and like feeling like feeling feeling like it's your job to educate people is shitty. So I I can see multiple sides here, but so back at that in that time I was attracted to women very much, but I didn't know that. I just thought, oh, we're we're all doing this. Um and I only was crushing on men officially, or boys, I guess. I was like 20 or something, 19. Um okay, let's see. No, I left when I was 21. Okay, so probably after that was when I was hanging out with their gender non-conforming pals. And so I remember once I was at some gathering and it was Havla and their roommates and pals, and it was probably like five people that all had different pronouns than you would expect them to. And I remember having a mini panic attack and announcing to the whole room, I'm so sorry if I fuck up your pronouns. And I like I just had a big moment.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

And I don't remember how they responded. There was probably some mixed reactions, some grace too, some understanding, like some love, probably. Um but I was just scared of messing up, and also I had never hung out with queer people or gay people before. Um, and then I don't know, the more that I did it, the like more less mysterious it became and the more normal it became, and then um I guess I just learned more about it and like more ways of being, and I liked what I learned. And um I remember asking Havla, because they were kind of like my this is who I ask questions about queerness to at that time. Um, it would it be okay if I try out she and they pronouns? And Havel's like, well, yeah, of course. Like, oh, I can do whatever I want. Oh, okay. What form do I have to fill out? Right, exactly. Exactly. Like, would this be, you know, inappropriate or make people feel weird or whatever? No, you can do that. That's fine. So um I remember that um and I and I need to thank Havla for this. I remember that for the next little bit, I don't know, maybe a year or something, that oh that while I was around people who I hadn't discussed this with, like that my I am using she and they pronouns, that they would just refer to me as she and I wouldn't really correct them, but I knew over in Seattle, Havala and their friends were holding on the fort and referring to me as they, and that felt really fucking good. They were just I just remember, yeah, like they're holding on the fort on that, and I really appreciated it. And then uh a few years went by, I think, and I started working at Lone Pine here in Bend, where I met Maddie, and I decided that in that space I would enter in as just they them, like just use the using those pronouns and again just see how it feels. Because as I had this analogy, you can just try on a different like different hats and see how they make your neck look. Like, does this work for me? For your pronouns, like you can do whatever the fuck you want, there's no rules, and I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

2026.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

2026, no rules, and so um oh, and also when I was using she and they, I noticed that when someone referred to me as she, it started feeling less good and less easy and less appropriate. And when people would refer to me as they, it started feeling better and better and better. So that was like some data. So then yeah, started at Lone Pine, um, just introduced myself as they them. And I don't know if you remember, I made a point to introduce myself to every single person. Hi, my name is Meredith. I my pronouns are they, them. What are your pronouns? I don't know if you remember that.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Uh Rosie, shout out to Rosie, was like, what are your pronouns, Maddie? And I was like, Oh, and you were there with the three of us. And then you were like, Thanks, Rosie. I'm them. Oh, cool. I was like, oh, cool. Wait, so she asked both of us? She asked me, and it seemed like under the understanding that she wanted me to know that you were not, that you were the them. Oh, because you were like, What a good friend.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Like, wow, thanks. Oh, that's nice. And I was like, Oh, that's she's the best. She's so sweet. Um, I was also noticing in that job that I wasn't the only person using different pronouns or being gender non-conforming or whatever. Um, but that people didn't know. And so they were just assuming.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Rather than just being like, hey, what are you what do you want me to call you? Who are you?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

They're just like, I'll just do this. I'll just call you this. And so I I was having a lot of anger around that time, around my queerness, because and I still feel this way. I feel that and I've talked about this before on this show where I tell everything all the time, that I that it is an inconvenience, or it is it is uncomfortable for folks who don't uh understand the difference between the sex and gender. And if you don't know, I'm gonna tell you. Sex is biological, scientific. You're male or you're female, or maybe you're a little of both, intersex. And actually, potentially sex is a spectrum. Um gender is your identity. It's a construct. We made it, right? We created it.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

It's a social creation.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

It's a social construct. And so gender has all of these things that come along with it that just lump they you just lump we just lump uh people into categories. So if you're a man, well then you must be this and this and this. And if you're a woman, well, you must be, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And I hate it, and I think a lot of it's bullshit. And uh there are still fucking forms. I filled one out today for some uh new patient form for a PT appointment. They're like, what is your gender? And then I don't know, like they don't even know what they're fucking asking. They're just trying to make sure that they uh like at least they're trying, they're making a difference, but or sorry, they're making an effort to not assume that all their patients are men, cis men and cis women. Yeah, but that are not fucking understanding that there is the sex and there is the gender. Two questions. They're different fucking things. That the form should have both. Yeah. It's really annoying. And multiple times when I've been to the doctor the last few years, I've like made a point to write my pronouns on there and ask someone like, hey, where do I where do I put this information on myself? And where are you gonna put it in your computer? Right. Um, I'm not really into chairs.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

You could you could you could stand or sit on the floor if you like.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Uh I could sit on the floor. Maybe I will.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

And how has I know that you were saying like it's exhausting to Oh, I'm happy to be happy to answer any questions. Like exhausting to be the person responsible for educating people. So, and I totally get that.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Happy to answer any questions because also we all have our own experiences of gender. Yeah. So it's not some of it is educating people, like, hey, here's why you should care. But then some of it is like, hey, here's what it's like to be me.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Yeah, I'm curious if like what opened up for you, or did it just feel like ah, this is aligned, this feels right, this feels me, and then it's like, okay. Or was there this more of this opening or this like discovery in it? And what did you discover?

SPEAKER_04 14:07

Nice. So being around these queer folks in Seattle with my friend, knowing that their pronouns were they, he, or she, they, or they, them, or whatever the hell they were, it meant to me, it meant that they had a curiosity around. I don't even know if I'm gonna be able to articulate this, but they were making an effort to analyze their relationship to gender and how they fit into the discussion around gender. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

This is kind of you're thinking about it and making a choice rather than just sort of like this is the stream that I was born in, and I'm just sort of still bobbing down, like because that's where I am.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Yeah. And once you break out of one thing, one huge thing that you were born into, like what other whatever and it's a whole thing's getting breaking out there.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Yeah. Queerness, the more that I learn about it, the more I can see how it's connected to so many other things. It's just magic. Um, but it's hard to it's hard to put into words. So for me, um uh uh so I grew up being socialized as a girl and as a woman, and so I wore skirts and dresses, I covered my chest, I covered my most of my body. I was I learned that I was that I could be a temptation and that it's my job to not be to men. Cause it's not uh it's not their fault, right? Boys will be boys. Cheers. Fuck. So there there was something that always felt bad to me or like felt unfair. I would and I've said this before, I think I told Connor this on his episode that I would look at what boys were wearing when they came to meeting, and it was so different than what I wore. Like they could run and play after meeting, and I I was not in practical clothing, and it's not like I was wearing lace doilies or anything. Like I grew up in Alaska, but um being presented as a girl, being formed in as a girl, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Especially in such a patriarchal society, right? Like, I mean, obviously all soci well, most society is patriarchal, but like that's like exceptionally patriarchal, I think.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

And just what you're saying, the the like just utility of what you're wearing. Pockets fucking pockets. And and what's put on women still, like, like if you like long nails and that's what you want, great, but like these long nails and high heels or like these little skirts or whatever, like if you if that's making you feel good and it's for you, great, but it limits our ability to move around in the world and it keeps us to keep ourselves ourselves safe sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

How can you run away if you're in heels in a tight fucking pencil skirt that's not actually made to it's for sitting?

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It limits that it limits our mobility, it limits our like just like utility in the world, and it just keeps us.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

And you can you're like lots of people are choosing it. And like the corset thing, like men didn't wear corsets. Like we have just we've just done these things to each other.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

And if we can just keep women in this little like constricted container, literally in all the ways, and make it so they can't move around in the world as easy, and we can just have them spinning around in how they look and spend all their time and money on this and keeping them away from the city. Their work is in how they look. Yeah, and keeping them away from being at the table.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Mm-hmm. Right. And women are supposed to be apparently more submissive and like, you know, love taking care of children. Like, oh, you have a maternal, you know, you you must love all of that. And like, and I and some of this is old and doesn't necessarily pertain to where we are now in in this society, but like that the man is the breadwinner and the woman stays at home taking care of the kids, and that the the woman's not supposed to make more than the man, and like there's just a bunch of bullshit that I fucking hate that's doing so much harm. And it makes some people feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

So good for them. But for me, it was like, you know what? I don't want people to feel I don't want I don't want their I don't w well for myself, I don't want to feel the expectations for myself as a human that fit into like what it means this isn't gonna be articulate, but what it means to be a woman, like am I am I doing that right? And also men, like they get shafted, no pun intended, but like they're not supposed to be vulnerable. They're not supposed to be tender and soft, they're not supposed to be, I don't know, themselves. And that sucks, and that's doing so much harm.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

And I think that's why we're having such an insane hard like such a hard time in the dating culture right now, because things have flipped, and now we don't need men to be providers, really. Like, we got that, we can handle that on our own. And or at least right, like for me, I guess. Speaking for me, I can handle that. So I actually just want a partner that can be my companion and can emotionally meet me and be my partner, and we like patriarchy fails men too, because they weren't socialized to do that, and then all of a sudden they're being asked to do something that we've had a whole lifetime of training in. Yeah, and yeah, and there's just w this whole boat that's rocking and flailing in the middle of it because we've both been harmed. We've all been harmed. Both no. We've all been harmed.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah. And then men are supposed to have more privilege than women, and like the the like men are supposed to make more than women, and or like they do get paid often more than women. And like anyway, these are not like the best examples, but as I noticed more and more the disparities between the two options, like how polarizing they were, and of course you can always opt in or out as you please, but the more I noticed how stupid gender was, the more I'm like, I don't want to be part of this conversation. I just want to be like a third thing. Like I don't, I don't I'm not trying to be like a man and like I don't wear a bra really. Like I dress doodly sometimes. It's not because I'm trying to be a man. You're just being you. Yeah, I'm not I'm not loving my answer to this question, but the more you're trying to like release yourself from the constraints of gender. That's fucking right. That's right. And like this, it's not just about to wear and to be, and that's why I'm gonna do it. It's just about how we like what we're wearing though. Like there's just so much. Like gender is so is the word pervasive, like it's just touching so many other things. I opted out. So I don't know when I started working at Lone Pine, like four years maybe, or I don't know, four years ago. And I'm still figuring out what gender means to me, and like that's probably a conversation I'll be having with my and everyone for the rest of my life. Yeah. I don't have a bunch of answers. I just that's the whole point of it, right? Like it's open. It's that I'm I'm not yeah, it's so like having space constrained. It's being open and bringing curiosity to the table. So yeah, I really like observing people who are thinking critically about. Why they are the way they are and why they believe and think what they believe and think. I really respect people that do that. Because they're like bringing something fresh to the table.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

Instead of just being like, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So anyway, fuck. This isn't an articulate, beautiful, elaborate.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

I don't think that there is an answer or an art, you know, it is that's the point. It's just open, it's it's undefinable. It's gender's bullshit. Is my opinion. Yeah, gender is necessary for capitalism because so we can like this stuff is for men and this stuff is for women, and you you can't have the same thing. You can't share the same thing. You need two of everything.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

And and the gender reveal party. Hilarious. You mean sex reveal. You mean genital genitalia reveal. It's not gender. Gender is fake.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Well, it's not it's not fake.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

It's created. It's not scientific.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Sure. Yeah. Like but it's real.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Yeah, well, we made it real.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Yeah, no, no, no. I know it's not fake. I'm just saying it's it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, and and for a lot of people, I think being told how to be is really helpful for them. Because they are not willing to do the work to figure it out. And they just want to be told what to do, and that's comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Inter interreligion.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Like great, I'm cozy and comfy by being told what to believe, being told what to do. Here's the ten steps. Everyone around me is doing it too. Staying in my little group and huddle around each other and keep each other warm and everyone else is fucked. Shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

I'm struggling to find words, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

But I guess we're I guess, yeah, a lot of people aren't willing to admit that life is just scary and no one knows why we're here or what we're doing. And and we our brains cannot accept that, or or like a lot of a lot of brains can accept that and like give me something to hold on to.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

People are so much more than their assigned gender.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

And I like when people go out and fucking discover those parts of themselves. Like when men date men. That's pretty fucking cool. And when men are tender, and when I don't know, man, like when when we're busting out of these dumb rules that we created, like I I'm remembering like faggot as a sorry, I don't know if I'm not supposed to say that anymore, but as an insult in school, or like, oh you're that's gay. Like, you know what? That's fucked up. How is that an insult? Ugh. I just I just want us to give ourselves more space to become ourselves. And I and uh what's the point? We're all gonna die anyway, and I don't know why we're here. I was thinking that today. I don't know why we're on this planet. So there's so there's part of the that's that's part of it too. Lordy, Lordy.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

What made you think about why we were here?

SPEAKER_04 25:19

I think it was because I was thinking about being in the hot seat tonight. And like, what do I have to say and what's important to me, and like what are the three things I'm gonna tell you about myself? And like it there's a big chance it doesn't matter like what I'm gonna say about myself. Like what does matter, actually? And I don't know the answer to that. And my answer changes.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yeah. Sorry, I'm doing that with my foot.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

That's okay. Yeah, I've that that question's always been interesting to me because to me, like, for as long as I can remember, I've always been like, who why why do we care about this that much? Like, who cares? Who the question of why we are here has always feels felt so irrelevant to me.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

That I'm just like it's it's so unknowable, I guess. And I'm so I'm like, why are we spending effort trying to figure out something? Divine an answer that's never gonna be unsolvable.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah. And why are we in these different camps? Like, and why are we making harder? Why are we making it harder on the other? I'm right, no, I'm right, no, you're wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah. Yeah, like I mean the the the debate around what, you know, what the around religious structure, like that makes sense, or like it's not it, it's not I'm not engaged in it, but it makes sense to me. Like why, you know, okay, what do you believe about the structure of the universe? And I guess that does maybe always pare down to why we're here, but not necessarily. I don't think. I don't know that I don't know that your religious belief has to rest on a reason understanding of why we exist, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

I feel like most of the religions have that.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

They do. But but is it is it central? Like could it could the religion exist without that?

SPEAKER_03 27:12

It feels like the central question is like, yeah, I guess it I guess it is where are we or like what what like what do we there has to be something else like there's something else at play that we have no we have no control over. And we'll like and and there's something way bigger, and we feel this energy and we feel this like mystery. There's something like an after commune with this mystery like what's happening? Can you receive the message? What's happening? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

So yeah, like as I as this as it often happens when I have discussions around gender, it it pretty much always loops back to like I'm not really sure what fucking matters, including gender. So I just don't know. It's all so unknowable.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

It is unknowable for sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

I was feeling quite a vastness today as I was in that mindset. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Just zoomed out, couldn't see the edges so far.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

My sister once said, like, it's so annoying that we're smart enough to think that it's weird. Like, wow. We're smart enough to think that it's weird that we're here. Yes. But then it goes no further than that. That is a pity.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

I agree. Yeah. It would make it less confusing if we didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah, I don't think the deer are worried about that.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

No. Horton, here's a who. You heard that? You read that story? Oh yeah. The who's weren't they were fucking fine before they got enlightened. Right? They were just relaxing. They were just whistling.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

They were whistling and then that had to eat the apple, goddamn it.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Oh, two different stories.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Are they are they two different stories? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

So yeah, I don't I don't know. Not not sure how to find a nice, like tie a nice bow on this discussion. But I really love to and then I didn't even mention like I'm also pansexual, so I don't care what gender someone is or what genitalia they have if I'm gonna be in a romantic relationship with them. It doesn't matter to me. And it was it's weird to think of when that did matter to me. And I thought I'm only allowed to be attracted to these people, and I'm not allowed to be attracted to these people. That's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

So Well I yeah, it seems telling that you would describe it as being allowed to. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Like Yeah. But then also, I mean, even for folks who are not growing up in religious settings, there's the same rules. So Yeah. But yeah, like so many girls are like women are given permission to explore their sexual identity. Like, well, I make it with my friends when I'm drunk, and that's normal because I'm a girl, and they're all a little bisexual, and then men are like, Are you gay, bro?

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Cause I I think that women aren't immune to all the sexualizing of women in the world. Like, I see that billboard, I see we're we're drinking from the same cover. So, like, of course, we're gonna find women more beautiful too. Yeah, boobs are like I love boobs. Yeah, yeah. Are you bisexual? Um I I haven't like defined that for myself. Gotcha. Really, because it does feel like this this like thing in my family that I'm not willing. It's almost like I don't want to I'm not gonna open that door. Because like it'd just be it would be just be like a a lot for me to work through with my family, and I just I don't necessarily want to go through that.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Here, yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

And like I'm happy with a good dick, so I mean I am too.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

I am too. It's just you know, it's nice to feel like I'm choosing who I want to choose and not like oh I'm just not ruffling any feathers, I'm just gonna do this thing, you know?

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Mm-hmm. I I I haven't like transcended that for like I'm scared to get a nose ring because my family would freak out. So I'll get a nose ring first and then I'll be bisexual. It sucks.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah, it's a fucking plan.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

That's I'm on the path.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah, I just have really long hair and that uh I um would cut it and the shorter and shorter it got, the gayer and gayer I got. Oh, okay. I'm pretty short right now. It's really short. I'm inching my way up. I can see your neck. You like it? Yeah, of course I do. Anyway, I think a bottom line, like, can we just give ourselves space and not judge each other for how we identify and and like not make fun of each other also? Like, can we not just can we not be dicks? If we don't understand something, can that be okay? And can you still be supportive instead of just being a fucking dick? God period. Anyway, I'm really grateful for my queer friends. They have they continue to hold down the fort in many ways. And when I have um anxiety or like can't figure out gender as a at all or what my stance is on it or whatever, like they show up as their beautiful queer selves, and I'm like, this feels like home, and I'm so grateful, like this makes sense to me. It it might not right now in my own body, like my own gender and my own stuff with that. But being around people who are living it up and just not like coloring outside of the lines, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Wow. Well, on that note, do you have a closing quote for us?

SPEAKER_04 33:30

No. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Um, how about thank you? Sorry, I didn't I forgot about that part.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Well, yeah, it was your first time on the show, so that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

Yeah, maybe you guys will give me another chance or something.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll have you on there again.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Is there is there any line or quote that you Yes.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

Yes. The ducks may swim on the lake, but my daddy owns the lake.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Boom.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

From holes.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

The film. A feature film. Yep. Thank you. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

All right, well Mayor, thanks for coming on the show. That's a guest.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Every Madeline Bouge. Bulge? Actually, I worked at Pac Sun in high school, and I when I applied, the uh manager was like, I thought your last name was Bulge, and I was like, What is she? A stripper, her maphrodite?

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Welcome to PAXun!

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Welcome to retail.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Madison. Budge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Well, Madison Budge. Thanks for co-hosting.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

It's been Divine. Good one. I won't budge.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Nice. All right. Well, if you did the Wonder Quest, send us a voice note. Tell us what you did. And uh we'll get it posted in the next episode. Um thanks for listening. Make sure you follow the show if you haven't already and rate it. And you can leave comments now, I think. Woo-hoo! Very fun. So send it to a friend, especially if you hated it. Um and we'll be he always gives that as an option.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

We want to know about it in a different round.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Share your rage. And uh yeah, we'll be back next time.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

Keep it weird.