SPEAKER_00 0:00

Um yeah, it was definitely the most intense, uh, most painful thing that I have ever done. Something that I had have wanted to do my whole life is to to have a non-pain medicated birth.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Be prepared to think and feel anything.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

There are no courage to start knowing what's out there. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Welcome back to the Wonder Pod. We're here with Jude. And Wolf.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

And Wolf.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And Meredith.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

And Meredith.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So we just met your baby. Her name is Winter. Um, you recently gave birth to her. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. She is perfect. Thank you. And in this episode, we might hear her.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We're hearing her right now.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Talking. She is wailing. Communicating. One thing I've always been aware of is that once you get pregnant, there's no going back. You have to go through with giving birth, even if it scares you. And it's something I imagine is super painful and hard. And you can tell with this question, I'm scared of that. I'm scared of it. Um it's not an experience I expect to have myself. I'm curious to hear what it was like for you to give birth. And and also, I don't know if I should apologize for like starting out with fear because there's so much beauty and joy. But it's also it was probably very intense.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

It was very intense. Yeah. And I think that's uh as much as I think there's kind of maybe extraneous fear that society paints around birth, there's also it's valid to be afraid of it. Like I don't think we need to be pretending like it's not a scary thing, you know? Um but yeah, it was very tense. Um I was unmedicated, so it was natural um all the pain, all the feelings. Um, so I I labored in the water for a bit, but I was at the birthing center and they won't let you deliver in the water. I came very close though. Um, they were like, oh wow, we need to get you out of this tub, or we will be having a water birth. Um yeah, I interestingly enough, this is like a total aside that's like very granular detail, but I didn't actually find the water that helpful. Like I thought that it was gonna be really helpful, but it was relaxing in between my contractions, but it didn't do a goddamn thing to the actual contraction. So um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Is it supposed to sorry to interrupt, is it supposed to take some pressure off, or what's it supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Well, I think um your experience may vary, is kind of the answer, but the general consensus is like, yeah, it's taking the weight off your belly, right? You're you're kind of more supported, so that's helpful. Um, it's warm, so it's relaxing. Your muscles, your low back starts to go through the ringer. Um and uh yeah, I think for some people it helps to relieve some of the pain of the contractions. Um, and then I I think also there's like mixed evidence on if it helps prevent tearing or if it might actually sometimes expedite the tearing because it it softens things so you know you're coming out forcefully. So midwife to midwife, they have different um views on like is it helpful for that or not? But um, yeah, it was definitely the most intense, uh, most painful thing that I have ever done. Wow. Um, but it's something that I had have wanted to do my whole life is to to have a non-uh pain medicated birth. Um so in a lot of ways, I think I have had so many years of wrapping my mind around the fact that that was gonna happen that I wasn't scared of the pain. I think there's been just a long time of me being like, this is gonna fucking hurt, you know?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Um, and I also think birth is super rad. And so I've done uh just a lot of like nerding out about like the physiological process of birth, like different coping mechanisms, just like the mechanics of how it works. Like the body is so dope. Like it is just so cool how uh especially when you are having an unmedicated labor and you're not um tinkering with any of the the cascade of things that's happening, like the way your body orchestrates delivering a human is just like it's insane. And and that's not to say that uh pain relief, you know, that's so important for so many birthing people, and like I think it's so um I think it's so important that natural birth versus medicated birth doesn't get pitted against each other because there's a tendency for that to happen. And I think it really comes down to just like people giving birth need to be informed and making educated choices. And so if you are informed about the risks of an epidural and it feels like the benefit of being pain-free outweighs those risks, that's an empowered decision and you should make that. But we don't, this is tot- Oh my god, I'm getting on a soapbox, sorry, but I'm passionate about this. Um it's so um normalized now to get an epidural that we don't give people the full rundown of like, you know, it does increase your chances of having to have more interventions, it does increase uh, you know, the likelihood that there could be complications down the line, like because once you start tinkering with one part of the biological process, odds are good that you're gonna have to do other things to help along. Um, and it doesn't happen with every birth, and like there's a lot of people with epidurals that it's absolutely fine. But uh, we don't give people that disclaimer enough. And I think there's a fair amount of people who probably wouldn't have gotten an epidural if they had known that. Um, but as long as you have that information, that's the important part. That's how you make an empowered informed decision, right? And it's so important that like you have that tool available to you because that could be make or break for someone being able to have pain relief. So anyway, for me personally, the risks didn't outweigh the benefit. And like I kind of in maybe like a low-key masochistic way, I don't know, like I wanted to experience the full thing. Like I was like, I like so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah, you want to have the full emotional range of that experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, and and it was so cool, like it was the most painful thing I've ever done, but at the same time, the experience as a whole was like just so fucking cool. Like to and to have that background knowledge of like understanding what my body was doing to help me not feel afraid and to help me be able to kind of zoom out and like be having these insane contractions, but then to be able to say, like, okay, I'm pretty sure like I'm really close to being in the pushing stage, like based on what my body is doing.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Um, you know, or like when I did reach the pushing stage, it's it's completely involuntary. Like when you're unmedicated, it's like it feels like vomiting, but like out of your vagina.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Like it's a whereas full if you're medicated, they have to tell you to push.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Sometimes, a lot of the times. Um, and it it's uh it it just depends on your body. Some people, like I have a friend who just had a baby uh like a month or a few weeks after us, and she had an epidural, but she still felt a lot of the contractions, and she still fully felt like the urge to push in the right places, and she felt it's called the fetal ejection reflux, the way that your body just does the thing. Um, and she felt that. But a lot of people won't feel it, so it just kind of depends on your body. Um, but for sure, if you're having an unmedicated birth, like my baby, there she is.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Poor sweep. Jude's husband Matt is walking around. He's bounding your daddy. He's doing great.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Um yeah, but if you if you are unmedicated, like odds are really, really high that you are going to have, you know, all the sensations and the feelings, and it's there's a feedback that happens in your body of being able to feel that contraction and feel the pushing, and then your brain releases more of the hormones that are like causing you to do that, causing you to dilate. Um, and so it's just really cool. It's just this like incredible orchestra. Um, and I think that it's crazy how like fundamentally it's like the most normal, mundane thing ever.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

And also I see it as a miracle. It is, which is I've mentioned that before on here, I think.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

I I definitely afterwards I remember for for days, and even still now, I'll have moments where I'm like, how are we just like like going about our life now? Like I just did this insane thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Like so is it would you say it is one of your most like is it something that you're um if you look back on all your accomplishments, is that pretty high on the list?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Because it I mean, on the one hand, like the baby's coming out, you know, like you said, like as soon as you get pregnant, that's the thing I've really fixated on for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Like you can't be like, uh never mind, I don't I don't want it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

You have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

You have to follow through with it. So you can't really opt out, and so in that sense, it's kind of like I don't know, in it's uh it's like an inev uh it's an inevitable accomplishment, if that makes sense. But it's also like regardless of that, regardless of hard.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Like I mean, like that doesn't I think that doesn't make it easier.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

No, for sure. And regardless of how you had the baby, like you still grew the whole thing, it came into the world because of your body, you know, like so yeah. Um but yeah, I think uh I I feel really accomplished, not just for having done it, but like the prep that I did for it, I think really, really paid off. Um and just like the prep. Um the education part, first of all, um that was really helpful for like um like for example, her so Winter's heartbeat started to drop when she was um in the birth canal, which is very normal. It's called a a deceleration. Um, but hers was dropping a little bit lower than what we like to see. Um, and so that changed uh the pace of things a little bit. The midwife was like, okay, everything's okay, but you need to, you know, baby needs to come out. Um and I think if I didn't have the knowledge I did about birth, that would have scared me. I would have been like, holy shit, what do you mean my baby's heart rate is dropping and she needs to come out? But I knew the accelerations are super normal. Um, being born is really stressful. Uh, you know, the birth canal is squeezing you. I figured even in even in this like crazy pain laborland state, you're totally in another realm when you're giving birth. But even with that, there's like another part of my brain that's like zoomed out that's like she probably has a nuclear cord, or like probably like there's a little kink somewhere, and like we're gonna be okay. I don't need to be afraid of this. Um so that was really helpful, like to have that, you know. Um, and then I also the other prep I did was uh hypnobirthing, which is basically like self-hypnosis. Um and you're not it's not like the whole like you're getting very sleepy, like looking at a medallion swinging in front of you. It's uh honestly so much of it is just like meditation and mindset and and affirmations and mantras and like teaching your brain to quickly get into a relaxed state where you feel safe. Yeah. Um that's wonderful, yeah, yeah. And so that was really helpful. I was falling asleep in between my contractions.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, you said you were in a different realm.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah. What do you mean by that? I feel like that's like asking someone to like describe their acid trip. It's like, I don't know, you're just like locked the frick in, you know, and like everything everything just kind of like tunnels down into this pinpoint of this moment of your contraction that you're having, and like focusing on getting through that contraction, and like it's just like on the one hand, like it being insanely present, but then on the other hand, like this kind of like element of like almost leaving your body to like let get out of your own way, if that makes sense. I I don't know if I it's hard. It's not exactly dissociating, it's I'm sure some people would describe it as dissociating. Yeah, I think I I think it just kind of depends on on your experience. But I definitely felt like my brain was split into two pieces. Like there was a part of me that was very much in the body, feeling the experience, focusing on the breathing, like you know, getting through it, all that stuff. And then there was this other part of my brain that was like observing and almost kind of uh the keeping watch, if that makes sense, you know, like still being aware of things.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

But somehow you still fell asleep. Yeah, that's unjust.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, no, it was crazy. I would like as the contraction was tapering off, my head would just like snap back and I would be passed out until Are you serious? Dead, dead ass. Is that normal? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, well, especially because you have to conserve energy.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Uh well, to be honest, I don't know how much of it is like that versus how much the hypno birthing came into it versus like how many people that normally happens to, but I know with hypnobirthing for sure that is a common experience is to but yeah, you are so tired that I think that your body is like looking for its moment, you know, to take that break. Um yeah, so yeah, it was is a total trip, and I I can't really put my finger on it, but I do feel like there's a part of me that was unlocked that I learned about that I wouldn't have learned about if I hadn't have not if I had not had had that experience. So what do you mean by that? I I honestly don't I can't put my finger on it. It's like maybe maybe like an innate thing of like recognizing that like I can do that, you know, and like now everything stacks up against like I delivered my daughter, you know? Like it I I went into it assuming this is gonna be the most like pinnacle type two fun that I've ever had. And like it's gonna be just like uh you know, like an intense backpacking chip or a hike where it's like like you said, like the only the only way out is through. You can't go back. Um that was a big affirmation for me going through it. Was like the only way out of this is through. Um and I think then having done that, it like it was like a it just like integrated that knowledge into me that like yes, when you're in that position where the only way out is through, you can do this and you have done it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Do you or did you just feel like the most badass version of yourself ever? Did you just feel so empowered and impressed by yourself?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

In the moment, no. Uh it took several, it took several days for me to process uh and be to feel proud of myself. Um in the moment, I remember like when it like when things were at their worst. There were moments where I was like, if you told me I needed to have an emergency C-section, I would be relieved. Like I, you know. And at the same time, I I knew that I I wasn't gonna ask for that peduro. Like I knew that I wasn't gonna do it, but I fully understand why people do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Um where do you feel the pain mostly when you're giving birth?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Um, it totally depends on the person. For me, it was very much in the period cramp zone. Your whole belly hardens and contracts with your contractions, like you're all of your muscles are doing the thing. But I definitely felt the pain most in that position that like you would feel, you know, if you're someone who menstruates and gets cramps, like that's where I felt it. And then at the very end, I was feeling it all wrapped around in my low back as well. But it's really interesting because your uterus, by the time you're giving birth, is all the way up to your diaphragm. So I thought it was really interesting that like I was expecting to feel that period cramp feeling across my whole stomach, because that's my whole uterus, right? But I didn't. I really only felt it in that pelvic region. Um, but yeah, just depends on on the person. But thank you for being willing to talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, no, I'm a huge birth nerd, so I could talk about it all day long. I am assaulting her with questions. Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Um It's a little more outside of my uh experiential realm. Um not really. I think you're I think you're doing great.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, I think you're doing great. I'm fascinated. I mean, it's like yeah, it's just so outside of my uh my lived experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

But um something you and I might not ever do, you know?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Well, I certainly won't do it. Um but uh yeah. Yeah, no, I mean it's um yeah, it's interesting. My mom, my mom delivered me without an epidural, and then the other three siblings, she was like, Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. You can stab me with the thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Um but um that's why I'm so much better than them, obviously. Yeah, yeah. Well, someone had to say it. Yikes.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Is there anything um further that you just want to throw in there before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

I guess just like I said earlier, like it's so important that people have access to informed decisions about this stuff. And it doesn't matter how your baby came into the world, whether it was out the shoot or through the sunroof, you know, or like it doesn't matter, you know, if you had that bedural, if you didn't. Um it's incredible that you did that. Like it's incredible that you grew a human and then you brought it into the world, and it's uh it doesn't serve anybody to try to make one way seem better than the other, but it does serve pregnant people to uh make sure everyone has an informed choice that they can feel educated by.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah, it's similar to breastfeeding. Totally, you know, absolutely whatever works for the family is great.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like everyone's experience is gonna be so different, and um uh it's just so important that we also give uh people the ability to advocate for themselves for what they want for that stuff. Um I was really lucky at St. Charles. Uh everyone was super on board and super supportive of everything that I wanted, but there's so many other birth centers where they're not, they're really gonna push you for um induction or um, you know, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Uh to make it less uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

To make it less uncomfortable, to make it easier for the staff if they're not comfortable with like dealing with it. Um, you know, maybe they don't have like a good uh lactation department and your milk isn't coming in very well, so they're immediately pushing you for a formula where it's like, okay, maybe give that person the space to like work with their baby and like you know, so for sure. Those are my closing thoughts. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah, thanks for sharing. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Man, my kid is really pissed out of the house.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Someone's child. Some people's kids.